Versiune completa:Atacurile Din Liban
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"Buba" a inceput mai demult, nu in '74. Libanul plateste pretul acceptarii refugiatilor palestinieni pe teritoriul sau, pentru ca in 74, ca si in 82, de la palestinieni a pornit treaba. Acum, Libanul continua sa aiba peste 400 de mii de palestinieni, pe care nu ii vor naturaliza ca cetateni libanezi nici in ruptul capului, si pe care vor sa-i vada plecati, dar "buba" continua sa fie faptul ca nenoricitii aia nu au unde se duce si nu-i mai accepta nimeni. Acordul Taif, daca se aplica, ii obliga pe libanezi sa ii accepte pe refugiati ca cetateni, sau cel putin sa nu aiba dreptul de a cere "repatrierea" sau expulzarea.
| QUOTE (carpatic @ 7 Aug 2006, 03:28 PM) |
O problema spinoasa este dezarmarea Hezballah. |
Aha ! Toate bune, pana cand se ajunge la aceasta "problema spinoasa" !
Fantomaticul guvern de la Beirut joaca cum ii dicteaza hizballahii ! Adica repeta ce le spun nasrallahii " nu acceptam" !! Si nu accepta pentru ca nu vor sa se dezarmeze . Si asta au fost motivul ptr. care s-a ajuns aici , nu s-au dezarmat si au refuzat sa predea puterea/autoritatea guvernului libanez/armatei libaneze . Shebaa Farms ?
Pentru cei care vor sa evite incercarile de manipularea pe aceasta chestiunea le sugerez sa citeasca aici din unde dau un extras :
In 1964 a joint Lebanese-Syrian border committee suggested to their governments that the Shebaa Farms area be deemed the property of Lebanon, and recommended that the international border be reestablished consistent with its suggestion. However, its suggestion was not adopted by Syria or Lebanon, and the countries did not take any actions along the suggested lines. Thus, the maps of the area continued to reflect the Farms as being in Syria. Even maps of both the Syrian and Lebanese armies continued to demarcate the region within Syrian territory
Various members of the international diplomatic community have repeatedly requested that Syria and Lebanon take steps to determine the exact boundary between them in the Shebaa Farms region and elsewhere, including officially registering the demarcated border with the United Nations. However, the two countries have never taken any such action
SI CU TOATE ACESTEA, DEODATA IN 2000, hopa : the Lebanese government's first claim to the territory
Dar hizballahii nu dau doi bani pe aceasta disputa pentru ca :
Hezbollah's spokesperson Hassan Ezzedin had this to say about the area: "If they go from Sheba'a, we will not stop fighting them. Our goal is to liberate the 1948 borders of Palestine...[Jews] can go back to Germany or wherever they came from
Carpatic, mai vrei ?
| QUOTE (Eris @ 7 Aug 2006, 02:06 PM) |
| De ce nu spui si care sunt motivele March? Sunt intemeiate, nu sunt? |
vezi ce am scris mai sus. Plus citeste cu atentie : Acordul de la TAIF si Rezolutia ONU 1559 . Motivele sunt acolo !
Lacrimi de crocodil
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora broke into tears twice Monday afternoon during his address to Arab foreign ministers in Beirut. Siniora started crying when he spoke about the killed in Lebanon: " We know that we are not the only ones facing this catastrophe, as our brothers in Palestine and Iraq are also suffering under the occupation."
Grozavi sunt astia la farse......l-am vazut on-line si era sa vomit!
Sorin.
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora broke into tears twice Monday afternoon during his address to Arab foreign ministers in Beirut. Siniora started crying when he spoke about the killed in Lebanon: " We know that we are not the only ones facing this catastrophe, as our brothers in Palestine and Iraq are also suffering under the occupation."
Grozavi sunt astia la farse......l-am vazut on-line si era sa vomit!
Sorin.
In loc sa planga in fata presei, mai bine ar cere hizballahilor sa opreasca katiushele .
Te salut din nou Sorin,
Mare parte a mesajului tau imi confirma mie spusele, Libanul nu este decat o treapta pe care Iranul o foloseste din plin. Ai dracului, ca nici mie nu-mi plac, dar de ce, ma repet, trebuie sa sufere altcineva? De ce nu se tinteste direct in sursa?
Spun eu de ce, pentru ca nu se stie daca se mai pot suporta costurile
. Libanul e o tinta facila.
Ai spus insa ceva acolo care trebuie sa recunosc ma surprinde.
Mare parte a mesajului tau imi confirma mie spusele, Libanul nu este decat o treapta pe care Iranul o foloseste din plin. Ai dracului, ca nici mie nu-mi plac, dar de ce, ma repet, trebuie sa sufere altcineva? De ce nu se tinteste direct in sursa?
Spun eu de ce, pentru ca nu se stie daca se mai pot suporta costurile
. Libanul e o tinta facila. Ai spus insa ceva acolo care trebuie sa recunosc ma surprinde.
| QUOTE |
| La ora actuala, in Liban oricine "gandeste" altfel decat Nasrallah, risca sa o i-a pe drumul lui Hariri.....de aici chipurile simpatia si intelegerea fata de actiunile Hezbollah. Singuri au recunoscut crestinii ca prefera 30 de ani de razboi cu Israelul si nu 30 de ani cu Shiiti! |
Parerea mea este ca Hezbollahul si-a capatat simpatia abia in urma actiunilor sangeroase pe care le-au sustinut israelienii. O spun sondajele. Si mi se pare normal, pai din moment ce Libanul nu are nici o forta armata si nici nu are de unde cumpara arme, nu ti se pare normal sa fraternizeze cu ei? Pana la urma, regula unui razboi curat (daca il poti numi asa) este sa nu se implice populatia civila, ceea ce Israelul nu face, Hezbollahul da. Nimic din actiunile israeliene nu da dovada ca exista o diferenta intre cele doua beligerante. Amandoua se cheama ca sunt extremiste. Doar ca unii sunt imbracati la tol festiv cu cravata la gat.
| QUOTE |
| Am sa fiu foarte serios si am sa-ti spun...in Israel sunt doar doi ostateci de la Hezbollah....atat! |
Mai Sorine, tu esti unul de-al lor, spune drept.Ei cereau o suta. Restul precis erau de-ai nostri.
Cheers
Draga mea....sondajele si presa de azi spun:
Dozens of people are feared dead after Israeli warplanes destroyed several houses in a Lebanese border village.
It is feared that people are buried under rubble of the houses in Houla, security officials said.
Fuad Siniora, the Lebanese prime minister, said more than 40 people had been killed in a "deliberate massacre."
Sources said aircraft first destroyed a house where 17 people were hiding in the Hamameer district of the village. Up to six other strikes a short time later hit four nearby houses where about 40 other people were staying.
Israeli soldiers had been fighting Hezbollah close to the border village early on Monday.
Oare vrei sa-ti spun eu adevarul, sau ai sa-l gasesti singura....
Regards....
Sorin.
Dozens of people are feared dead after Israeli warplanes destroyed several houses in a Lebanese border village.
It is feared that people are buried under rubble of the houses in Houla, security officials said.
Fuad Siniora, the Lebanese prime minister, said more than 40 people had been killed in a "deliberate massacre."
Sources said aircraft first destroyed a house where 17 people were hiding in the Hamameer district of the village. Up to six other strikes a short time later hit four nearby houses where about 40 other people were staying.
Israeli soldiers had been fighting Hezbollah close to the border village early on Monday.
Oare vrei sa-ti spun eu adevarul, sau ai sa-l gasesti singura....
Regards....
Sorin.
Nu cauta......adevarul e exact ca asta:
Reuters admits to more image manipulation
News organization withdraws photograph of Israeli fighter jet, admits image was doctored, fires photographer. Reuters pledges 'tighter editing procedure for images of the Middle East conflict'
Reuters has withdrawn a second photograph and admitted that the image was doctored, following the emergence of new suspicions against images provided by the news organization. On Sunday, Reuters admitted that one of its photographers, Adnan Hajj, used software to distort an image of smoke billowing from buildings in Beirut in order to create the effect of more smoke and damage.
The latest image to face doubts is a photograph of an Israeli F-16 fighter jet over the skies of Lebanon, seen in the image firing off "missiles during an air strike on Nabatiyeh," according to the image's accompanying text provided by Reuters.
Sorin.
Reuters admits to more image manipulation
News organization withdraws photograph of Israeli fighter jet, admits image was doctored, fires photographer. Reuters pledges 'tighter editing procedure for images of the Middle East conflict'
Reuters has withdrawn a second photograph and admitted that the image was doctored, following the emergence of new suspicions against images provided by the news organization. On Sunday, Reuters admitted that one of its photographers, Adnan Hajj, used software to distort an image of smoke billowing from buildings in Beirut in order to create the effect of more smoke and damage.
The latest image to face doubts is a photograph of an Israeli F-16 fighter jet over the skies of Lebanon, seen in the image firing off "missiles during an air strike on Nabatiyeh," according to the image's accompanying text provided by Reuters.
Sorin.
| QUOTE (March @ 7 Aug 2006, 03:53 PM) | ||
vezi ce am scris mai sus. Plus citeste cu atentie : Acordul de la TAIF si Rezolutia ONU 1559 . Motivele sunt acolo ! |
March, da-mi voie sa fac o sinteza: America si Franta si-au dat acordul ca o parte din forta armata israeliana sa ocupe anumite pozitii in sudul Libanului.
Ce oferta generoasa!N-am citit Rezolutia ONU 1559 dar o sa citesc. Poate cine stie, o sa ma convinga ca toate crimele comise in acest razboi sunt pentru o cauza dreapta. Si daca nu ma va convinge, oricum nu are importanta.
Salutare
Eris
Uite raspunsul, ca sa intelegi cum merge treaba:
BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said Monday that one person was killed in an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla, not 40 as he had earlier reported.
"The massacre in Houla, it turned out that there was one person killed," Reuters quoted Siniora as saying. "They thought that the whole building smashed on the heads of about 40 people ... thank God they have been saved."
Siniora had earlier told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut that the attack "was a horrific massacre ... in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing."
Saniora said he had based the initial tally on unspecified information that he had received, The Associated Press reported. He offered no other explanation for the error.
Regards....
Sorin.
Uite raspunsul, ca sa intelegi cum merge treaba:
BEIRUT, Lebanon (CNN) -- Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said Monday that one person was killed in an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla, not 40 as he had earlier reported.
"The massacre in Houla, it turned out that there was one person killed," Reuters quoted Siniora as saying. "They thought that the whole building smashed on the heads of about 40 people ... thank God they have been saved."
Siniora had earlier told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut that the attack "was a horrific massacre ... in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing."
Saniora said he had based the initial tally on unspecified information that he had received, The Associated Press reported. He offered no other explanation for the error.
Regards....
Sorin.
| QUOTE (SORIN @ 7 Aug 2006, 07:34 PM) |
| Nu cauta......adevarul e exact ca asta: Reuters admits to more image manipulation Sorin. |
Da, vrajeala mare. Cum zic ei!
Ne mai vedem si prin alte parti. Parerea mea este expusa clar si nu cred ca mai am altceva de adaugat. Ramane de vazut cum vor decurge lucrurile.
Oare ce era hotomanul ala care manipula fotografiile la agentia Reuters ?!?
Atentie si la manipulatorii de pe Forumuri !! Iata cum , astazi, a fost demascat unul pe forumul ziarului "Ziua" ( comentarii la articolul " Libanul refuza proiectul ONU") :
De la: Mos Grigore din Chicago (...@worldnet.att.net)
Data: 2006-08-07 21:32:07 , IP: 208.207.43...
Zen cel creative...........................
Metoda lui Zen:
Iata care este metoda de manipulare a marele iluzionist Zen care va insala buna credintza in scopul de a denigra Israelul:
In "Ziua" de ieri, la articolul "Dominoul din Orientul Apropiat"
(http://www.ziua.ro/f.php?zyear=2006&thread=204681&id=118293 )
Zen a publicat postarea (una din zecile cu care ne bombardeaza zilnic denigrand Israelul) "The Zionist Kyrstallnacht".
In aceasta postare, coautorul (zen) a "reprodus" un articol din Guardian. In articol este vorba de doua membre ale Labourului din Anglia sosite la aeroportul Ben-Gurion cu destinatzia Ramallah. Cele doua femei au fost anchetate, dupa care vizita le-a fost respinsa si au fost trimise inapoi
In textul in limba engleza, domnul Zen a avut grija sa strecoare urmatorul fragment, al carui scop este sa demonstreze cruzimea israelienilor, "sarmanele" femei declarand ca au fost atacate, batute, umilite si fortzate sa predea anchetatorilor ceasurile si alte bijuterii.
In plus au fost amenintzate ca vor fi duse in Liban la un spital ?! unde vor fi ucise sub pretextul ca sant teroriste.
Iata textul lui Zen (reproduc numai partea care ne intereseaza):
"We were asked if we brought any money for the Israeli Armed Forces, when we said no, it was just to help children, we were attacked, beaten, spat on and forced to give our watches and other jewelery to them."
"One of the commandos threatened to take us to a hospital in Lebanon then rescue just one of us while killing the others and claiming they were terrorists, it was insane."
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffa...1834228,00.html
ATENTZIE!!!! ACEST TEXT NU APARE IN ARTICOLUL ORIGINAL DIN GUARDIAN, ESTE VORBA DE O PLASTOGRAFIE...........................
ACEASTA ESTE METODA LUI ZEN ..................................................
De la: Mos Grigore din Chicago (...@worldnet.att.net)
Data: 2006-08-07 21:32:07 , IP: 208.207.43...
Zen cel creative...........................
Metoda lui Zen:
Iata care este metoda de manipulare a marele iluzionist Zen care va insala buna credintza in scopul de a denigra Israelul:
In "Ziua" de ieri, la articolul "Dominoul din Orientul Apropiat"
(http://www.ziua.ro/f.php?zyear=2006&thread=204681&id=118293 )
Zen a publicat postarea (una din zecile cu care ne bombardeaza zilnic denigrand Israelul) "The Zionist Kyrstallnacht".
In aceasta postare, coautorul (zen) a "reprodus" un articol din Guardian. In articol este vorba de doua membre ale Labourului din Anglia sosite la aeroportul Ben-Gurion cu destinatzia Ramallah. Cele doua femei au fost anchetate, dupa care vizita le-a fost respinsa si au fost trimise inapoi
In textul in limba engleza, domnul Zen a avut grija sa strecoare urmatorul fragment, al carui scop este sa demonstreze cruzimea israelienilor, "sarmanele" femei declarand ca au fost atacate, batute, umilite si fortzate sa predea anchetatorilor ceasurile si alte bijuterii.
In plus au fost amenintzate ca vor fi duse in Liban la un spital ?! unde vor fi ucise sub pretextul ca sant teroriste.
Iata textul lui Zen (reproduc numai partea care ne intereseaza):
"We were asked if we brought any money for the Israeli Armed Forces, when we said no, it was just to help children, we were attacked, beaten, spat on and forced to give our watches and other jewelery to them."
"One of the commandos threatened to take us to a hospital in Lebanon then rescue just one of us while killing the others and claiming they were terrorists, it was insane."
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffa...1834228,00.html
ATENTZIE!!!! ACEST TEXT NU APARE IN ARTICOLUL ORIGINAL DIN GUARDIAN, ESTE VORBA DE O PLASTOGRAFIE...........................
ACEASTA ESTE METODA LUI ZEN ..................................................
Apropo de manipulatori pe forumuri... Sorin, ai putea te rog sa-mi dai niste linkuri catre articolele pe care le citezi? Din pacate nu le-am gasit pe net...
| QUOTE |
| Dozens of people are feared dead after Israeli warplanes destroyed several houses in a Lebanese border village. |
| QUOTE |
| Reuters admits to more image manipulation |
| QUOTE |
| Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said Monday that one person was killed in an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla, not 40 as he had earlier reported. |
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 8 Aug 2006, 12:46 PM) | ||
Apropo de manipulatori pe forumuri... Sorin, ai putea te rog sa-mi dai niste linkuri catre articolele pe care le citezi? Din pacate nu le-am gasit pe net...
|
Nu citesti presa ? Toate agentiile de presa au mentionat rectificarea lui Siniora, aseara a aparut si pe scrolul CNN. Iata cum au redat stirea ziarele :
Tears welling in his eyes, he lamented the long list of Lebanese civilians killed in the conflict. He included 40 "martyrs" who he said perished Monday in a "massacre" in the village of Hula, hit by Israeli airstrikes. Later he said that his information had been wrong and that one civilian died at Hula.
"Thank God they were not killed," Siniora said in response to a reporter's question about his emotional speech
si in alta parte :
Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora said Monday that one person was killed in an Israeli airstrike on the southern village of Houla, not 40 as he had earlier reported.
“The massacre in Houla, it turned out that there was one person killed,” Reuters quoted Siniora as saying. “They thought that the whole building smashed on the heads of about 40 people … thank God they have been saved.”
Siniora had earlier told Arab foreign ministers in Beirut that the attack “was a horrific massacre … in which more than 40 martyrs were victims of deliberate bombing.”
Saniora said he had based the initial tally on unspecified information that he had received, The Associated Press reported.
He offered no other explanation for the error.
Cred ca "Washington Post" si "Reuters" sunt de ajuns !!
Nu-l banuiesc pe Siniora de incercare de manipulare . Pentru ca altii l-au intoxicat cu minciuna aia. A avut totusi curajul s-o recunoasca !
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 8 Aug 2006, 11:46 AM) | ||||||
Apropo de manipulatori pe forumuri... Sorin, ai putea te rog sa-mi dai niste linkuri catre articolele pe care le citezi? Din pacate nu le-am gasit pe net...
|
Greu la sapa si mai greu e sa recunosti adevarul!
Superunknown ......adevarul e undeva dincolo de ce se scrie si vede in mass-media din Ro!
Nu cred ca e nevoie sa-ti explic de ce stirile prezentate in Romania nu au nici o tangenta cu realitatea............
Sorin.
ps. Succes la....
| QUOTE |
| The warriors of Hezbollah, Party of God, are serious men fighting a serious war, but what inspires them? Among guerrilla gangs, they are top of the class: obedient, clever, efficient, secretive -- and of course, willing to sacrifice themselves and their families. They are not afraid of death, nor do they show pity for neighbours killed when they hide military operations among women and children. Clearly, the Hezbollah warriors are driven by much more than salaries received from Iran. They hate Jews and, because they fear Sunni Muslims, they badly want to keep power in Shiite hands. But is that enough? Does that explain why they have been preparing for this war for so long? A cleric who interrupted his theological studies to rejoin Hezbollah in June, and who claims to be descended from the prophet Muhammad, says, "We had six years to prepare for this day." |
| QUOTE |
| One evening earlier this summer, Lebanon’s most popular satire show, ‘‘Bas Mat Watan,’’ broadcast a sketch showing an ‘‘interview’’ with Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, Hezbollah’s leader and secretary general. ‘‘Nasrallah’’ was asked whether his party would surrender its weapons. He answered that it would, but first several conditions had to be met: there was that woman in Australia, whose land was being encroached upon by Jewish neighbors; then there was the baker in the United States, whose bakery the Jews wanted to take over. The joke was obvious: there were an infinite number of reasons why Hezbollah would never agree to lay down its weapons and become one political party among others. |
Israel shut down south Lebanon with a threat to blast any moving vehicles.
”Our last remaining supply route into Tyre into the south has been cut,” said Christopher Stokes, operations director for the relief group Medecins Sans Frontieres.
Bombings on the road between Tripoli and Beirut.
De actualitate:
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - An Arab League delegation accused the Security Council on Tuesday of standing by idly while weeks of fighting between Israel and Lebanon's Hizbollah sow "the seeds of hatred and extremism" in the Middle East.
si
In New York, the Arab League delegation, address the Security Council on Lebanon's demands call for immediate ceasefire and complete withdrawal of all Israeli troops.
”Our last remaining supply route into Tyre into the south has been cut,” said Christopher Stokes, operations director for the relief group Medecins Sans Frontieres.
Bombings on the road between Tripoli and Beirut.
De actualitate:
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - An Arab League delegation accused the Security Council on Tuesday of standing by idly while weeks of fighting between Israel and Lebanon's Hizbollah sow "the seeds of hatred and extremism" in the Middle East.
si
In New York, the Arab League delegation, address the Security Council on Lebanon's demands call for immediate ceasefire and complete withdrawal of all Israeli troops.
iata cum sunt oamenii manipulati.. iata cum se arata poze fabricate cu victime, case arzand, raniti din Liban...
manipulare
mai spun atat: de pe site-ul reuters au fost retrase in urma scandalului aprox 1000 de poze care evident ca au fost pana acum folosite de ziare si televiziuni pentru a influenta opinia publica..
manipulare
mai spun atat: de pe site-ul reuters au fost retrase in urma scandalului aprox 1000 de poze care evident ca au fost pana acum folosite de ziare si televiziuni pentru a influenta opinia publica..
| QUOTE |
| mai spun atat: de pe site-ul reuters au fost retrase in urma scandalului aprox 1000 de poze care evident ca au fost pana acum folosite de ziare si televiziuni pentru a influenta opinia publica.. |
Dea, o singura poza publicata de Reuters a fost editata (si dovedita ca atare). Restul pozelor au fost retrase pentru simplul motiv ca erau facute de acelasi fotograf care nu mai prezenta credibilitate. Sigur ca asta ridica semne de intrebare si indeamna la atentie, dar sa fim seriosi: in primul rind, asta nu-i apa de ploaie fatza de manipularile grosolane comise de media americana pro-israeliana, si in al doilea rind, poza aia trucata nu atenueaza cu nimic atrocitatile comise de israelieni in Liban si in Palestina.
| QUOTE |
| Superunknown ......adevarul e undeva dincolo de ce se scrie si vede in mass-media din Ro! |
Sorin, daca mai zici de 475 de ori cuvintul "adevarul", s-ar putea sa incep sa te cred
Te mai intreb o data, doar de curiozitate, care e motivul pentru care nu oferi linkuri la "stirile" pe care le prezinti?
| QUOTE |
| asta nu-i apa de ploaie fatza de manipularile grosolane comise de media americana pro-israeliana |
un link?
| QUOTE |
| si in al doilea rind, poza aia trucata nu atenueaza cu nimic atrocitatile comise de israelieni in Liban si in Palestina |
dar despre sursa conflictului, altfel spus..atrocitatile comise de palestinieni etc in Israel cand vorbim?
in discutia asta trebuie luat in considerare faptul ca pana la urma, noi nu ne aflam in mijlocul luptei... si ne bazam pe raportarile partilor implicate in razboi si pe confirmarile "oficiale" ale acestora
oricum, mai sus era doar un exemplu de manipulare "fizica" (prin poze).. iata insa alt exemplu de manipulare:
Revenire spectaculoasă asupra bilanţului bombardamentului israelian din localitatea Houla din sudul Libanului. Premierul libanez Fuad Siniora a declarat că un singur om şi-a pierdut viaţa şi nu 40, aşa cum afirmase cu puţin timp în urmă în cadrul reuniunii miniştrilor de externe din Liga arabă. "La început s-a crezut că toate cele 40 de persoane din imobilul prăbuşit au murit. Slavă Domnului, marea majoritate au fost salvaţi" , a spus premierul.
sursa
| QUOTE |
| un link? |
| QUOTE |
| dar despre sursa conflictului, altfel spus..atrocitatile comise de palestinieni etc in Israel cand vorbim? |
Daca tu chiar crezi ca aia e sursa conflictului, inseamna ca esti naiva rau de tot dar, in fine, asta nu e ceva ilegal, asa ca poti incepe sa vorbesti.
cand ma refer la sursa conflictului ma refer la anii de atentate si crime comise de ambele parti... naivitate e sa vezi lucrurile in alb si negru, sa nu intelegi ca dupa atata vreme motivele initiale nici nu mai conteaza, sunt pur si simplu pretexte pentru continuarea acestui razboi.
referitor la link - e vorba despre doua moduri extreme de a prezenta lucrurile (pro-israelian si pro-libanez)... nu sunt de acord cu nici una... si ca intotdeauna realitatea e alterata de ziaristi si reporteri... asta nu e ceva nou
oricum, dupa cum arata ultimile poze din linkul postat de mine anterior (publicate pe site-ul new york times), macar americanii exagereaza in ambele directii
daca folosesti un limbaj agresiv banuiesc ca te simti mai bine.
sa-ti fie de bine.
referitor la link - e vorba despre doua moduri extreme de a prezenta lucrurile (pro-israelian si pro-libanez)... nu sunt de acord cu nici una... si ca intotdeauna realitatea e alterata de ziaristi si reporteri... asta nu e ceva nou
oricum, dupa cum arata ultimile poze din linkul postat de mine anterior (publicate pe site-ul new york times), macar americanii exagereaza in ambele directii
daca folosesti un limbaj agresiv banuiesc ca te simti mai bine.
sa-ti fie de bine.
Nu cred c-am folosit un limbaj agresiv dar, daca-i asa, imi cer scuze.
In ce priveste cele doua tipuri de manipulare, ele nu pot fi puse pe acelasi plan: pe de o parte avem manipularea pro-libaneza, pe cit de marunta pe atit de evidenta - un tip a ingroshat in Photoshop coloana de fum ca sa-si faca fotografia mai interesanta, iar premierul libanez a avansat o cifra mai mare a victimelor unuia dintre raidurile zilnice ale Israelului, lucru pe care l-a corectat ulterior (daca tii minte, si in timpul atentatelor de la 11 septembrie 2001 s-a avansat initial un numar de victime mult mai mare decit cel real). Pe de alta parte insa, avem de-a face cu o manipulare programata, sistematica, care urmareste sa minimalizeze si sa justifice, in ultima instanta, niste crime de razboi - asta fac mass-media mainstream americane si lor li s-a raliat (surprinzator sau nu) un mare numar de bloggeri independenti, "activati" cu aceasta ocazie.
Cit dspre sursa conflictului, ea nu trebuie lasata deoparte, chiar daca e mai greu de sesizat dupa atitea atacuri succesive venite din ambele parti. Asa cum ziceam intr-un mesaj precedent, e vorba de insasi infiintarea statului Israel, care a avut loc prin rapt teritorial si prin alungarea unui numar urias de palestinieni de pe paminturile lor. Acesti palestinieni s-au refugiat in statele arabe din jurul Israelului, iar ei si urmasii lor au in continuare statutul de refugiati, nefiind recunoscuti ca cetateni de nici unul din statele arabe. De rezolvarea situatiei lor depinde in buna masura instaurarea pacii in Orientul Mijlociu.
In ce priveste cele doua tipuri de manipulare, ele nu pot fi puse pe acelasi plan: pe de o parte avem manipularea pro-libaneza, pe cit de marunta pe atit de evidenta - un tip a ingroshat in Photoshop coloana de fum ca sa-si faca fotografia mai interesanta, iar premierul libanez a avansat o cifra mai mare a victimelor unuia dintre raidurile zilnice ale Israelului, lucru pe care l-a corectat ulterior (daca tii minte, si in timpul atentatelor de la 11 septembrie 2001 s-a avansat initial un numar de victime mult mai mare decit cel real). Pe de alta parte insa, avem de-a face cu o manipulare programata, sistematica, care urmareste sa minimalizeze si sa justifice, in ultima instanta, niste crime de razboi - asta fac mass-media mainstream americane si lor li s-a raliat (surprinzator sau nu) un mare numar de bloggeri independenti, "activati" cu aceasta ocazie.
Cit dspre sursa conflictului, ea nu trebuie lasata deoparte, chiar daca e mai greu de sesizat dupa atitea atacuri succesive venite din ambele parti. Asa cum ziceam intr-un mesaj precedent, e vorba de insasi infiintarea statului Israel, care a avut loc prin rapt teritorial si prin alungarea unui numar urias de palestinieni de pe paminturile lor. Acesti palestinieni s-au refugiat in statele arabe din jurul Israelului, iar ei si urmasii lor au in continuare statutul de refugiati, nefiind recunoscuti ca cetateni de nici unul din statele arabe. De rezolvarea situatiei lor depinde in buna masura instaurarea pacii in Orientul Mijlociu.
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 9 Aug 2006, 05:49 PM) |
| Acesti palestinieni s-au refugiat in statele arabe din jurul Israelului, iar ei si urmasii lor au in continuare statutul de refugiati, nefiind recunoscuti ca cetateni de nici unul din statele arabe. |
Gresit si falsa afirmatie....asa ti-au spus Balestinienii din RO'??
Sorin.
ps. Ai fost in Liban??
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 9 Aug 2006, 02:01 PM) |
| Sorin, daca mai zici de 475 de ori cuvintul "adevarul", s-ar putea sa incep sa te cred Te mai intreb o data, doar de curiozitate, care e motivul pentru care nu oferi linkuri la "stirile" pe care le prezinti? |
Esti prea indoctrinat si plin de..... ca sa poti intelege!
Iar daca vrei sa vezi ceva linkuri....cauta singur!
Poate ai sa dai si de asa ceva:
Sau:
Sorin.
| QUOTE (Dea @ 9 Aug 2006, 05:03 PM) |
| referitor la link - e vorba despre doua moduri extreme de a prezenta lucrurile (pro-israelian si pro-libanez)... nu sunt de acord cu nici una... si ca intotdeauna realitatea e alterata de ziaristi si reporteri... asta nu e ceva nou |
Păi e clar că relatările nu sunt corecte.
De exemplu nici despre refugiaţii din Nordul Israelului ( mulţi dintre ei etnici arabi
) sau de bombardamentele/victimele din zonele creştine din Liban nu prea se spune mare lucru. 
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 9 Aug 2006, 05:31 PM) | ||
|
Da' Julian Borger asta de unde isi ia banii ?!? Ca stie sa pomeneasca numai de reporterii CNN in Israel dar uita sa pomeneasca de droaia de reporteri trimisa de CNN in Liban unde prima vioara este Jim Clancy ! Asa ca mai usor cu linkuri d-astea catre ziare britanice "rosii" ( de ex. ) care nu sunt nici ele departe de "Reuters" , dar nu prin fotografii ci prin articole !
Ca sa vedeti ca aici nu-i vorba de o poza "in care s-a adaugat un fum ici colo" dupa cum incearca sa-i justifice unii pe manipulatorii si falsificatorii din naiva si totodata ipocrita media occidentala cititi aici mai multe :
Reuters Commits Four Types of Fraud
An overview of the photo hoaxes committed by Reuters, discovered so far
The recent discovery that the Reuters news agency released a digitally manipulated photograph as an authentic image of the bombing in Beirut has drawn attention to the important topic of bias in the media. But lost in the frenzy over one particular image is an even more devastating fact: that over the last week Reuters has been caught red-handed in an astonishing variety of journalistic frauds in the photo coverage of the war in Lebanon.
This page serves as an overview of the various types of hoaxes, lies and other deceptions perpetrated by Reuters in recent days, since the details of the scandal are getting overwhelmed by a torrent of shallow mainstream media coverage that can easily confuse or mislead the viewer. Almost all of the investigative work has been done by cutting-edge blogs, but the proliferation of exposés might overwhelm the casual Web-surfer, who might be getting the various related scandals mixed up. In this essay I hope to straighten it all out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's important to understand that there is not just a single fraudulent Reuters photograph, nor even only one kind of fraudulent photograph. There are in fact dozens of photographs whose authenticity has been questioned, and they fall into four distinct categories.
The four types of photographic fraud perpetrated by Reuters photographers and editors are:
1. Digitally manipulating images after the photographs have been taken.
2. Photographing scenes staged by Hezbollah and presenting the images as if they were of authentic spontaneous news events.
3. Photographers themselves staging scenes or moving objects, and presenting photos of the set-ups as if they were naturally occurring.
4. Giving false or misleading captions to otherwise real photos that were taken at a different time or place.
All of these forms of fraud have the same intent: to serve as propaganda for Hezbollah, and to make the Israeli attacks look as brutal as possible. And, taken together, they raise a very serious question: can any of the coverage by the entrenched media by trusted?
Reuters Commits Four Types of Fraud
An overview of the photo hoaxes committed by Reuters, discovered so far
The recent discovery that the Reuters news agency released a digitally manipulated photograph as an authentic image of the bombing in Beirut has drawn attention to the important topic of bias in the media. But lost in the frenzy over one particular image is an even more devastating fact: that over the last week Reuters has been caught red-handed in an astonishing variety of journalistic frauds in the photo coverage of the war in Lebanon.
This page serves as an overview of the various types of hoaxes, lies and other deceptions perpetrated by Reuters in recent days, since the details of the scandal are getting overwhelmed by a torrent of shallow mainstream media coverage that can easily confuse or mislead the viewer. Almost all of the investigative work has been done by cutting-edge blogs, but the proliferation of exposés might overwhelm the casual Web-surfer, who might be getting the various related scandals mixed up. In this essay I hope to straighten it all out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's important to understand that there is not just a single fraudulent Reuters photograph, nor even only one kind of fraudulent photograph. There are in fact dozens of photographs whose authenticity has been questioned, and they fall into four distinct categories.
The four types of photographic fraud perpetrated by Reuters photographers and editors are:
1. Digitally manipulating images after the photographs have been taken.
2. Photographing scenes staged by Hezbollah and presenting the images as if they were of authentic spontaneous news events.
3. Photographers themselves staging scenes or moving objects, and presenting photos of the set-ups as if they were naturally occurring.
4. Giving false or misleading captions to otherwise real photos that were taken at a different time or place.
All of these forms of fraud have the same intent: to serve as propaganda for Hezbollah, and to make the Israeli attacks look as brutal as possible. And, taken together, they raise a very serious question: can any of the coverage by the entrenched media by trusted?
Long live Israel !
Cred ca e cel mai scurt mesaj al tau Bolt
Asa sa fie........
Sorin.
Asa sa fie........
Sorin.
Sorin :
| QUOTE |
| Cred ca e cel mai scurt mesaj al tau Bolt |
Intr-adevar.
Stai ca-l fac acum mai lung :
Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel ! Long live Israel !
Misto, nu ?
Si la urma bag si un Amen !
Nah, sa se supere colegii pro Hezbollah, Fatah, Hamas, Al-Qaida, Al-Sunah, si Al-cui or mai fi ei.
Cand hizballahii nu-si baga coada pot apare si asemenea gesturi !
Israeli Brother Mourns Siblings by Donating Brother's Eyes to an Arab
By DAVID MUIR
abcNEWS
NAHARIYAH, Israel, Aug. 10, 2006 — In an odd twist on battlefield injuries, an Israeli victim of Middle East violence has helped an Arab regain his vision (...)
Israeli Brother Mourns Siblings by Donating Brother's Eyes to an Arab
By DAVID MUIR
abcNEWS
NAHARIYAH, Israel, Aug. 10, 2006 — In an odd twist on battlefield injuries, an Israeli victim of Middle East violence has helped an Arab regain his vision (...)
Ma mir ca un evreu a facut asa gest 
Dupa cate am invatat pe aici, sunt buni doar de a ucide civili pasnici.......
Sorin.
Dupa cate am invatat pe aici, sunt buni doar de a ucide civili pasnici.......
Sorin.
Emotionanta actiune a propagandei israeliene. Vrei sa vezi si de unde s-au inspirat?
SASE ISRAELIENI AU PRIMIT ORGANELE UNUI BAIAT PALESTINIAN IMPUSCAT DE ARMATA
SASE ISRAELIENI AU PRIMIT ORGANELE UNUI BAIAT PALESTINIAN IMPUSCAT DE ARMATA
Lasa vrajeala cu al de site-uri care habar nu au cum se scrie numele alora din care chipurile citeaza!
N-am sa ma mir daca in curand ai sa bagi si stiri de la noua dreapta........
Ia sa vedem si noi ce scrie in Hareetz
Lasa-neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Sorin.
N-am sa ma mir daca in curand ai sa bagi si stiri de la noua dreapta........
Ia sa vedem si noi ce scrie in Hareetz
Lasa-neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Sorin.
Vad ca tot cauti............ 
Sorin.
Sorin.
Sorinele, ai vrea tu sa te las ca sa-ti raspindesti in liniste minciunelele (pardon, "adevarul", ca asa suna refrenul tau). Imi pare rau pentru tine, asta n-o sa se intimple
Daca te intereseaza povestea respectiva, iti pot oferi, in afara de site-ul Haaretz (care a scos stirea din arhiva), alte trei linkuri: BBC, Gulf Times, SF Gate (preluare Associated Press). Diferenta dintre noi doi e ca eu vin cu argumente si dovezi in sprijinul afirmatiilor mele, tu vii doar cu abureala, diversiuni si provocari.
Daca te intereseaza povestea respectiva, iti pot oferi, in afara de site-ul Haaretz (care a scos stirea din arhiva), alte trei linkuri: BBC, Gulf Times, SF Gate (preluare Associated Press). Diferenta dintre noi doi e ca eu vin cu argumente si dovezi in sprijinul afirmatiilor mele, tu vii doar cu abureala, diversiuni si provocari.
Iar la sapa??
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 11 Aug 2006, 05:45 PM) |
Daca te intereseaza povestea respectiva, iti pot oferi, in afara de site-ul Haaretz (care a scos stirea din arhiva), alte trei linkuri: BBC, Gulf Times, SF Gate (preluare Associated Press). Diferenta dintre noi doi e ca eu vin cu argumente si dovezi in sprijinul afirmatiilor mele, tu vii doar cu abureala, diversiuni si provocari. |
Mda. Gest nobil intr-adevar pentru care : Khatib said the many phone calls he received included a conversation Sunday with Israel's acting finance minister, Ehud Olmert, one of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's closest confidants.
He said Olmert apologized for the boy's death and invited him to Jerusalem. Khatib said he had not yet decided whether to accept the offer. si in continuare : " Israel's parliamentary speaker, Reuven Rivlin, praised the Khatib family's action as a "remarkable gesture" after decades of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. "
Ceva similar in cazul pe care l-am dat eu mai sus ? Da de unde !!
Insa incercarea de manipulare o face site-ul verde mult drag matali : Altermedia si domnisorica aia (Corina Maftei) care a preluat si prelucrat ( prin traducere) informatia/articolul palestinianului George Rishmawi.
Cu exceptia trimiterii la ziarului Haaretz care nu se deschide (!) ( deci l-ai dat numai de vrajeala acolo) celelalte site-uri BBC/Gulf Times/SFGATE redau corect care etnii anume au primit organele , astfel :
"Ahmed's kidneys, liver, heart and lungs were transplanted into Israelis including Jews, Arabs and a Druze girl, medical officials said A member of Israel’s Bedouin Arab minority, 12-year-old Samach Riad, received the boy’s heart. " (Gulf Times)
sau :
On Sunday, his kidneys, liver, lungs and heart were transplanted into recipients ranging in age from a 7-month-old baby to a 58-year-old woman and including Jews, Arabs and a Druse girl girl ( sfgate )
Dar "Altermedia" ( un site cu mare "simpatie" pentru evrei !) reda cu litere de-o schioapa "ŞASE ISRAELIENI AU PRIMIT ORGANELE UNUI BĂIAT PALESTINIAN IMPUSCAT DE ARMATA " dupa care in text autoarea Corina Maftei mentioneaza : " Trei fete israeliene, doua evreice si o druză" . V-ati prins ? Despre arabii de nationalitate israeliana ... mucles !!!
Iar GULF TIME ,corect, mai mentioneaza in acelasi articol :
Israeli and Palestinian ambulance teams often co-operate in evacuating victims of violence. Some sick Palestinians receive treatment in Israel, although the Jewish state restricts entry permits citing security needs.
In 2002, a seven-year-old Palestinian girl received the kidney of Jonathan Jesner, a Briton killed in a Tel Aviv suicide bombing
Hai March, nu mai despica firul in patru aiurea, ca mai rau te faci de ris. Daca Haaretz a scos stirea de pe site e treaba lor, poate ca are de-a face cu faptul ca au trecut vreo zece luni de-atunci; daca te roade atita problema asta n-ai decit sa cauti la biblioteca varianta pe hirtie sau sa le scrii sa-ti trimita pe mail articolul.
In loc sa te lansezi in presupuneri ridicole, mai bine ai privi in fatza adevarata manipulare, careia i-ai cazut tu insuti victima: propaganda de razboi israeliana se foloseste de un gest de marinimie (real sau nu, asta importa prea putin) pentru a-si umaniza imaginea; un gest similar de marinimie a fost facut cu aproape un an in urma de o familie de palestinieni. Coincidenta sau nu, asta e treaba ta sa decizi, ca tot iti plac conspiratiile.
In loc sa te lansezi in presupuneri ridicole, mai bine ai privi in fatza adevarata manipulare, careia i-ai cazut tu insuti victima: propaganda de razboi israeliana se foloseste de un gest de marinimie (real sau nu, asta importa prea putin) pentru a-si umaniza imaginea; un gest similar de marinimie a fost facut cu aproape un an in urma de o familie de palestinieni. Coincidenta sau nu, asta e treaba ta sa decizi, ca tot iti plac conspiratiile.
| QUOTE (Superunknown @ 11 Aug 2006, 06:12 PM) |
| In loc sa te lansezi in presupuneri ridicole, mai bine ai privi in fatza adevarata manipulare, |
Cine a cazut de fraier esti tu coane Superunknown
taci si sapa................
Sorin.
ps. inca ai tupeul sa-mi ceri sursele
Eu l-am lasat cu Altermedia lui !
Eu nu.....
Sorin!
Sorin!
| QUOTE (SORIN @ 11 Aug 2006, 08:36 PM) |
| Eu nu..... Sorin! |
De ce nu ? Vrei sa-ti dau link-ul ca sa vezi cum acolo parca "actioneaza " niste hizballahi ?
Nu March ....stiu cum actioneaza aia hizballahi.....ascunsi dupa copii si muieri 
Sorin.
Sorin.
Interesant interviu...
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_...0wmv%20&ak=null
Si e musulmanca!!
Sorin.
http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_...0wmv%20&ak=null
Si e musulmanca!!
Sorin.
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